Curse

Sientir · Apr 17, 2006, 03:01 AM // 03:01

Another issue that bothers me is when people say, "Just go win HoH." It isn't like the standard PvE player would have a dream of a chance in Heroes' Ascent. It is just that highly competitive. It would be better if PvE teams faced each other, instead of the beast of the PvPers. :/

Misc Merik · Apr 17, 2006, 03:18 AM // 03:18

Didnt someone awhile back have a suggestion for countries not having favor having a different way into uw and fow. Instead of simply paying and going in they had to fight or do some kind of upperlevel challenge in order to gain access to an area they were not "worthy" of being in. Not an easy challenge either something that would beat the socks off of trappers and solo monk duos. Not my thought although I dont remember who originally said that. Other than that thought Im fine with the current system of favor.

Stabber · Apr 17, 2006, 03:51 AM // 03:51

Yet another favor thread that seems destined for the closed bin.

If any of you haven't yet, you should go read the final word on this topic. Nothing is going to change with regard to the favor system.

The. Final. Word.

bilateralrope · Apr 17, 2006, 04:00 AM // 04:00

For those of you wanting the favor system to stay, consider this:

You have a group of friends seperated over the europe and american servers due to their location and their usual playing times. They are all out of region changes. They want to do a FoW run togeather. How do they play a FoW run with each other ?

For factions, that doesn't look like it will be a problem as access to the eilte missions will depend on where the battle line is and what alliance your in. Guilds, and therefore alliances, aren't region specific and I can't see any reason why the battle line wouldn't be global.

For me, I suggest doing something like reducing the valuable drops if you go in without favor, but still allow people to experiance it.

Jessyi · Apr 17, 2006, 04:24 AM // 04:24

The final word? Final word my ass...that thread was closed because supporters of both sides of the arguement were rabidly flaming eachother. Better call up the dictionaries..."consensus" just got redefined. Just because ANet voiced thier stance doesn't make it any less BS.

I don't like being caught in the middle of a pissing match between Europe's and America's elite PvP players. I can only imagine how Korea, Japan, and Taiwan must feel. If I were based in one of those countries, I'd change my account location IMMEDIATELY.

It sounds to me almost as though the system is being protected soley to preserve the value of Europe's success (or 6 months ago, America's, or 6 months from now, who knows). Most excellent - a system that penalizes 4 regions at a time as a result. Can we get a new definition for "draconian"?

And, just for the record...I'm pretty sure there's a slight difference between "dynamic" and "arbitrary linkage". The game would be dynamic if after 6 months of solid PvE play, I could waltz into HA and start winning. NOT! Even if the game *technically* values skill over time played, the players certainly don't. My chances of getting into a team without grinding (there's that word again!) out my bambi are virtually zero. Not that it matters - increasingly more and more teams are asking r6+. Yeah, I don't think I'll be affecting change any time soon.

So, what do I think? I think the game is "dynamic" only to those who have the power, the connections, and the skill (oh, and they'd have had to start within three months of the game's release) to win HA with any consistency. To the rest of us, ANet's definition of "dynamic" is nothing but a bitter hypocrisy. No one is forced to play one style over another indeed.

All. Lies.

-Jessyi

Almighty Zi · Apr 17, 2006, 05:12 AM // 05:12

I think what upsets folk the most with this issue is that its the end-game content that is dependant on favour. I have been around since release and all my characters have completed the game and the only place I enjoy PvEing at this stage is the end-game content which is FoW and UW.

I'm not too bothered by this issue because I like to HA and GvG also, however, I can understand why a PvE-only players would feel frustrated when they want to play the end-game but are unable to do so because their region doesn't have the favour of the gods. They aren't going to think 'Hey! I'll go HA and win favour!' - I suspect many have tried PvP and didn't like it.

These PvE folk who want to be challenged by the end-game content aren't going to find a challenge anywhere else in tyria. They aren't going to just run around the shiverpeaks or maguuma jungle for the hell of it. I beleive that they most likely farm and wait on favour. I can therefore understand their frustration with the favour system.

HawkofStorms · Apr 17, 2006, 06:48 AM // 06:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jessyi

The final word? Final word my ass...that thread was closed because supporters of both sides of the arguement were rabidly flaming eachother. Better call up the dictionaries..."consensus" just got redefined. Just because ANet voiced thier stance doesn't make it any less BS.

Sorry, but A.net wins. You may be the customer, but when they say no, they mean no. I think one reason favor is linked to FoW/UW is to discourage e-bay gold farmers from using the areas. It is unprofitable to them to only have access to a farming spot a third of the day.
I like the system as it is.

bilateralrope · Apr 17, 2006, 07:15 AM // 07:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

Sorry, but A.net wins. You may be the customer, but when they say no, they mean no. I think one reason favor is linked to FoW/UW is to discourage e-bay gold farmers from using the areas. It is unprofitable to them to only have access to a farming spot a third of the day.
I like the system as it is.

Hence my idea, when you lack favor, you dont get drops down there. Besides, ANET will likely change their mind if a loud enough fuss is made about it, since they want people to keep buying new chapters. So if enough people threaten to not buy any more till ANET changes it, ANET will change it.

But I will not be making such threats, as america usually has favor when I want to go down there

ozi3333 · Apr 17, 2006, 07:29 AM // 07:29

The reason for Europe's favor (I'm european myself) is am dis 1.
IWAY! Only IWAY all the time, and that's not the build to WIN HA with, but to gain Fame. So it's your choice. Make a HOH holder or a fame machine.

Weezer_Blue · Apr 17, 2006, 07:49 AM // 07:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

If they completely disconnected PvP from PvE, then there will be an even bigger gap between the two player types.

There will be more hate and attrition, since there would be nothing binding the two player styles.

So, if I understand you correctly, if you seperate the two player types and allow them to play in a way which both will be happy doing their own thing, it will cause hate? That doesn't make sense in any way. "Damn those PvEers for playing their game unimpeded! Just look at their hateful, smug, happiness!"

Rayea · Apr 17, 2006, 01:18 PM // 13:18

Don Zardeone
your premis is flawwed..

ahem, shouting will commence in 3..2..1..

THIS GAME IS NOT, IN NO WAY, SHAPE OR FORM.....DESIGNED SOLEY TO TEACH YOU TO PVP!!

PVE IS NOT, NO WAY, NO HOW, DESIGNED JUST TO TEACH YOU TO BE READY TO GO PVP AT THE END OF IT

*shouting over.....cooldown period ajustment.....*

for goddess sake, it is just NOT! no matter how many times you morons think it is such, it is for both playstiles....
sure, some people play both....just like some people play ether one or the other....

but the maker sof the game din not design this so that all players would be forced to go pvp at the end of their pve experiance...
what is the point then, of allowing us to have 4 VARIABLE slots?
if that were the case, then we would have been given 1 slot for PvE...and 3 PvP ONLY slots....so once you had passed thru your pvp traing, ie PvE as you seem to think....we would keep out one silly little trained PvE monkey and moved on to their prefered 3 pvp toons....

sheesh, someone just shoot people that say stupid crap like that

d3kst3r · Apr 17, 2006, 01:37 PM // 13:37

From a software design standpoint, it seems that the developers knew that the PvE aspect of the game would be quite short, easily completed in around 2 months. Since an MMORPG with a lifespan of 2 months would be a bad design weakness, they implemented hunts for Green items to lengthen its lifespan while keeping in mind that making Guildwars one of those mindless farming games would also put casual players off from playing it.

Hence they designed PvP to be an endless wave of battles without anyone really gaining any advantage in the long term (unless they were ranked in the top 100 guilds). This model for PvP is similar to the model used for Counter-Strike in which players would play the same maps hundreds of times using the same weapons and still be coming back for more.

By now in its life cycle, the taking the Favor of the Gods has become very tedious and people no longer care about which country has favor any more (except the farmers) which is why in Factions they've decided to directly involve the entire game world into a never-ending conflict between two sides.

mariano · Apr 17, 2006, 02:02 PM // 14:02

I would like that HA were not linked to servers' regions, let's say link HA just to the guild name of the team if there is any, else just the name of the leader. Server's region is irrelevant. Therefore, I do not like that UW and FoW are linked to the Favor of the Gods. A demonstration of my dislike is that I have been in UW and FoW only 3-4 times, and it was because some friends wanted my colaboration; I never have been in UW or FoW because my own wish.

Instead of linking the tournament to servers' region, I would suggest I) that guilds ranking could be known ingame, and II) that the tournament had a ranking based on players' actual perfomance in the tournament!; and not in Fame's rank which is based in time played. (So that players' rank were changing like guilds' rank). I think, that this would be in better agreement with the statment that Guild Wars is a game about players' skill and not about time played.

I like that GvG is not linked to servers' regions, think I have not been able to play GvG even once due to not have been able to find a suitable guild (I may be a way too exigent

with the guild I wish, as I have been playing GW near one year

). Neither, have I been able to play in HA.

Mahanaxar · Apr 17, 2006, 02:32 PM // 14:32

Wow, 4 months ago all the favor system was nice and dandy for american players.
Everyone on this forum was like "go win HoH, if you need favor", or "stop switching server and win for Europe".

But now the favor system sucks...how can it be?

Rayea · Apr 17, 2006, 02:36 PM // 14:36

ah yes, easily completed...
by a wamo or monk whatever class....

you do know there are some players that DONT complete the game at all, or even in the 6 months of play since it came out, have gotten a single character accended or even been to the HA/HoH/UW/SF ect?

just cause a good proportonof the games players finish their first character in PvE after a wekk or two, dosent mean that its that easy for everyone....some people take their time and try to explore the whole map they are in....not everyone just does the main linked misions and scoot all the way from ascalon to the fire isles in one easy linked up steamroll....
theres a lot of little misison and quests that *some* of us like to play through, you know....

if they wanted the games shelf/play life to be 2 months pve and then the rest pvp, they should have said that on the box, or at least said..
*we fully expect all first time players to simply follow the bunny to the mission links and finish their first characters within a 1-2 week to 2 month maximum...oh, but sure, you can replay with your SECCOND character all the content you bypassed to fulfill your finish in 2 month obligation....*

Dougal Kronik · Apr 17, 2006, 02:49 PM // 14:49

Keep favor for access from ToA but reactivate Grenth's Temple in Lornar's Pass, and Build another Temple to Balthazar that can access UW anfd FoW at all times.

That way when you have favor, it's a quick port to ToA and you're in UW/FoW.
When you don't have favor, you fight from the War Camp, Beacon's, or Rankor and you're in UW/FoW.

Everyone is happy.

koneko · Apr 17, 2006, 02:51 PM // 14:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jessyi

I can only imagine how Korea, Japan, and Taiwan must feel. If I were based in one of those countries, I'd change my account location IMMEDIATELY.

Problem: those of us on the Asian servers can't change to to regions that gain favor (NA/Euro). At the moment, only those that are lucky enough (or stupid enough) to have two accounts (one NA/Euro) are able to play in the fun areas.

Proposed solution (I really don't think it's as big of a problem as people are making it out to be, but it would be nice to start working on a set of armor for my @ncjapan monk):
Region has favor - 1k entrance fee to UW/FoW
Region does not have favor - 3k entrance fee, reduced rare item/material drop rate, reduced chest spawns, slightly reduced quest rewards

Oh, and combine it with Dougal Kronik's idea, just for fun.

I don't see the possibility of any changes happening, though, since they've already said that they won't be making any massive and showstopping changes to "prior content."

NatalieD · Apr 17, 2006, 03:14 PM // 15:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mahanaxar

Wow, 4 months ago all the favor system was nice and dandy for american players.
Everyone on this forum was like "go win HoH, if you need favor", or "stop switching server and win for Europe".

But now the favor system sucks...how can it be?

So sick of hearing this. "Everyone" is a flat lie. Maybe some people changed their tune like that, but many of us did not.

Come to think of it, this whole mess is probably caused by thinking of people within a region as fungibles. Forgetting entirely that the people in a region who want to go to FoW/UW are rarely the same people who can go out and win the HoH when they want to, and that those two groups in fact share nothing other than a loose similarity of geography. Linking them with the favor system just makes no sense.

Kakumei · Apr 17, 2006, 03:18 PM // 15:18

The favor system is inherently flawed. Of course it is. It's been that way since release, it's common knowledge, but unfortunately, they don't seem to want to do anything about it.

Which, in turn, gives me shivers of dread about Factions--if they don't care that so much of the population can't access these places, they won't care that even more of the population won't be able to access those elite missions.

Ugh. Fix this, please.

Banin Galori · Apr 17, 2006, 05:19 PM // 17:19

It seems to me many of you have are making a few assumptions.

1. You must play UW and FoW, there's nothing else in PvE.
2. PvE and PvP should not be connected in any way.
3. The only way to win HoH is to do it yourself.

Seriously...

There's more to the PvE game than UW and FoW. The two areas were designed to reward the region that PvPs the best. If your region didn't win, there's still so much more to do in the game world. No one claimed everyone should have a right to UW and FoW. There's much more to the game than farming.

It's a single game, people. It's called Guild Wars. Let's not divide one game into two any more than we have already. The two aspects of Guild Wars are meant to intertwine, and the game was meant to encourage people to do both aspects. Let's not separate this game into two.

You will not win HoH on your own. You may not be able to do it with your guild. But your efforts, combined with the efforts of everyone in your region, will let you win. How did Europe manage to claw its way to the top and keep favor? They banded together as a region, and helped themselves. Once again, European solidarity seems to have pulled them through.

What's the problem with us? We're too lazy and self-centered. We believe that our own individual merits alone should be able to get us all the rewards we want. When we come against competition that's out of our league, we're too lazy to work harder to improve. Instead, we complain that the system is unfair.

The solution does not lie in splitting apart the game. The solution lies in rallying as a region to overcome the problem. Observe the enemy. Work out strategies to counter them. Post them on the forums, so everyone can benefit. Together, we can do this, and we can finally enjoy an aspect of the game that transcends individuals.

Edit:
To quote ol' Ben: We must hang together, gentlemen... else, we shall most assuredly hang separately.